Originally Posted by rohlfinator

The reality of the situation is probably somewhere in the middle. The only way to know for sure how the update will affect all players is to have access to player data, so only ArenaNet will have the best view of the big picture.

I would also caution you on your extrapolation of player opinions to the full population. With a population of 3 million players, you would need to sample hundreds of randomly selected players to get any sort of accurate picture of the situation. Choosing all your samples from the same guild or the same forum is hardly meaningful at all, as it will introduce significant bias.

Originally Posted by blackbird71

Originally Posted by LethalHands

Then by your own admitting you are biased. Perhaps somewhat of a hypocrite for appreciating what Anet has to tell you unconditionally about their updates, while at the same time claiming not having to accept anything they have to say "automatically" out of your skepticism? I'm assuming you're caught in a serious contradiction, or following these things is getting old real fast.

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Who am I?
What do I do?

I am the person who reads these forums daily. Who puts up with the name calling and the insults and the questions of my worth to try to answer your questions, listen to your concerns, relay matters of import to the designers, and share their wisdom, insight, reasoning, and updates with you.

I am a member of the design team, a member of the company that made the game that you play.

I am a human being, with a passion for my job, a caring for other people, and a real interest in communicating and helping out.

And I have now left the building.
If anyone wonders why, just read this thread.

Originally Posted by Kaleban

Holy crap this thread is still going?

I suppose it hasn't occurred to most of the people here (read/lurk and respondents) that just the length of this thread and statements from both side represents a de facto admission that there IS a problem?

Just because the problem isn't shared by the whole community (ala Soul Reaping nerf, those that don't like Necros are for it, those that do like Necros are against it) doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist.

I suppose its an issue akin to politics and religion, both sides can yell til they're blue in the face, but no amount of fervent belief, logic, immunity to reason, slides and bar graphs (thanks blackbird!), or flat our proof will convince one side or the other of the other's viewpoint.

In my efforts to make an argument, I suppose I assumed too much too quickly. Heck, ectos are down to 8k even, of course, my gold drops are down by 800% but who cares?

Anyways, I hope one thing we all can agree on is the fact that changes to the game need to be considered more carefully, and not implemented akin to a "scorched earth" strategy of changing the face of the game two years in.

In my humble opinion, this whole issue reminds me of the "Mission Accomplished" Bush debacle with regards to the Iraq war. The war on bots in this game is similar, broad and grandiose rhetoric, with little if any real net effect. As has been stated, it may be that ANet's efforts have only strengthened the botters and their ability to engage in Ebay-ing gold. Only time will tell, but if even 5% of the playerbase is unhappy with said changes, that's a huge amount of potential sales of EotN and II that may be lost.

Bottom line, make the game fun, and people will play. Make it inaccessible, convoluted or otherwise intimidating, and people will buy WoW instead. And as forums like these have shown, the perception on either side is enough to convince a person, rather than the subtle reality.

But remember, farmers are players too! Once you start ostracizing an entire group for their playstyle, and your game acquires a certain reputation for "linearity" then you may find that negative press via word of mouth is much WORSE than any bad marketing campaign. Especially those who are intelligent enough to see the hypocrisy behind ANet's saying one thing and doing another.

But, I've said too much already. C'est la vie.

Originally Posted by Rawraslan1121 well, for me, i will not continue to play gw...a shame really...i hate selling and was happy just to earn gold farming so i could get armor, etc. I won't be recommending gw to anyone and won't buy expansion or gw2. I think you just don't try hard enough to keep bots out, which is really the issue...since you can't then i will pick up a different game...LOTR here we come!

Originally Posted by Kaleban

Holy crap this thread is still going?

I suppose it hasn't occurred to most of the people here (read/lurk and respondents) that just the length of this thread and statements from both side represents a de facto admission that there IS a problem?

Just because the problem isn't shared by the whole community (ala Soul Reaping nerf, those that don't like Necros are for it, those that do like Necros are against it) doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist.

I suppose its an issue akin to politics and religion, both sides can yell til they're blue in the face, but no amount of fervent belief, logic, immunity to reason, slides and bar graphs (thanks blackbird!), or flat our proof will convince one side or the other of the other's viewpoint.

In my efforts to make an argument, I suppose I assumed too much too quickly. Heck, ectos are down to 8k even, of course, my gold drops are down by 800% but who cares?

Anyways, I hope one thing we all can agree on is the fact that changes to the game need to be considered more carefully, and not implemented akin to a "scorched earth" strategy of changing the face of the game two years in.

In my humble opinion, this whole issue reminds me of the "Mission Accomplished" Bush debacle with regards to the Iraq war. The war on bots in this game is similar, broad and grandiose rhetoric, with little if any real net effect. As has been stated, it may be that ANet's efforts have only strengthened the botters and their ability to engage in Ebay-ing gold. Only time will tell, but if even 5% of the playerbase is unhappy with said changes, that's a huge amount of potential sales of EotN and II that may be lost.

Bottom line, make the game fun, and people will play. Make it inaccessible, convoluted or otherwise intimidating, and people will buy WoW instead. And as forums like these have shown, the perception on either side is enough to convince a person, rather than the subtle reality.

But remember, farmers are players too! Once you start ostracizing an entire group for their playstyle, and your game acquires a certain reputation for "linearity" then you may find that negative press via word of mouth is much WORSE than any bad marketing campaign. Especially those who are intelligent enough to see the hypocrisy behind ANet's saying one thing and doing another.

But, I've said too much already. C'est la vie.

Originally Posted by ValaOfTheFens

I've had a week to adapt to this new system and my opinion is still the same. Its just plain bad. I'm in the ranks of the casual farmers and my drops have drastically dropped in quanity. I've experimented with parties of different sizes: solo, me + 3 Heros, and me + 3 Heros + 4 Henchmen. The solo and 4 man drop rates were like 3 drops in an entire cleared area(Arjok Ward, starting and ending at Yohlon Haven). Even with 7 NPCs my drops were horrible. Tomb seemed pretty much the same, though the gold drops were noticibly diminished. I'd try UW or FoW but I don't have the equipment(nor will I ever now) for it. I was willing to be skeptical and willing to give the system the benefit of the doubt. But now my doubts are gone and I just want things to be the way they used to be. *le sigh*

Gaile, I'm not angry at you and neither should anyone else be. But you're the public face of GW on the web. When an unpopular update occurs you're the one who comes and explains and so you're the only target for people's scorn. Does that make it right? No. But from our point of view your pronouncements are usually extremely inadequte(mostly due to lack of information) or sort of condescending. It would be nice if some of the developers took some time to write an article about the recent changes(i.e. SR nerf, Auspicious Incantation, etc) and perhaps tell us what is and is not going to happen in GW1. We deserve the truth(as much as we can get w/o spoilers for GW:EN and GW2) and you deserve better treatment.

Originally Posted by Loviator

does that mean you will stop bothering us with I AM LEAVING posts?

go to WOW/LOTR and be happy but for once simply shut up and go without the GW sucks now so i am leaving................just............go

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

....Instead, the loot scaling is selective, and it preserves a means for the high-end farmer to make money.
.....
A major theme of our most recent update is that the game should be friendlier and more rewarding for casual players, including casual solo farmers, and that the most advanced farmers should differentiate themselves from the crowd not through the amount of gold and common loot that they farm directly from monsters, but instead through the amount of gold that they can get from selling rare items to other players (directly or through traders).....

Originally Posted by cellardweller

And I would say that 300 skills is about the right amount for a character has been played casually for 6 months (1-2 hrs/night being spread out accross 10 characters). It allows for most primary skills and ~5-20 skills from your secondary professions. I am equally confident of this because without changing skills after clearing an instance or two GW gets very old very fast.

Originally Posted by boko

What you are missing is that most of the time, "rare" as you say, does not even warrant their status of rare. Most of the time, the rare are crap. 90% of the rare drops are useless. The perfect one or rare skin are way too erratic to really be considered as a good source of income. That's like relying on a lottery to sustain your basic need.

Originally Posted by Revan Bastille

2) According to the laws of supply and demand, if supply (of gold) goes down, then the demand (for gold) will go up and the prices will go up as well.

Originally Posted by blackbird71

There is also a large number of casual players(and there have been many posts to this effect) who mainly just play through the game, but who also solo farm occasionally as a means of earning gold to supplement their gameplay.
[...]
If they truly want to make things easier on the casual player, they can't remove their source of income without at least replacing it with something else.

Originally Posted by Kaleban

Bottom line, make the game fun, and people will play. Make it inaccessible, convoluted or otherwise intimidating, and people will buy WoW instead.

Originally Posted by rohlfinator

These statements seem contradictory. If casual players are merely using farming as an occasional, supplemental income source, then this update should not be drastically affecting them, as their primary income comes from other sources.

If they are using farming as a primary income source, I agree with Darksun that they are not casual players.